SHORT TERM: DOW breaks through 11,673 at 9:45 taking the market lower, DOW -358
Overnight the Asian markets were mixed, but Europe opened lower and closed -2.50%. US index futures traded lower overnight, then at 6:30 vice chairman Kohn gave a speech in Germany: http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/kohn20080626a.htm. At 8:30 the weekly unemployment claims remained at 384,000 and the Q1 GDP remained the same at +1.0%. Stocks gapped down at the open as the SPX hit 1312 in the opening minutes. It closed at 1322 yesterday. At 9:45 the DOW broke through that 11,673 level we have been watching, that would indicate an extension to this downtrend. An hour later the SPX started making lower lows. In between, at 10:00 existing home sales were reported up about 0.2%, while prices continued to decline. For the rest of the day the market declined steadily, with only one six point rally between 1:30 and 2:00. At the close the SPX/DOW were -3.0%, and the NDX/NAZ -3.70%. Bonds were up 3/4 point, Crude gained $5.25 making new highs, Gold surged $36.00, and the Euro was higher. Support for the SPX slides down to 1261 and then 1240, with resistance at 1287 and then 1316. Short term momentum is overosld, and the near term indicators turned lower. Tomorrow core PCE and consumer spending at 8:30, then consumer sentiment at 10:00. While SPX 1304 looked like a good support area, as the technical indicators and short term wave counts appeared to align. The DOW wave formation suggested that an extension to the downtrend would occur if 11,673 was exceeded. Fifteen minutes into todays opening the DOW traded below that and the market followed. Today while Crude was making new highs over $140, the DOW made new bear market lows under 11,635. This confirms that Major wave C is certainly underway. For now, the next important level for the SPX is the next OEW pivot 1261. Best to your trading!
MEDIUM TERM: downtrend resumes
LONG TERM: bear market
Hi Joe,
From 1929 high DOW dropped 89% to 1932, then a 5 year bull market.
In 1938 found support at Primary wave 4, rallied for a year, then retested support in 1942.
From 2000 high NDX dropped 82% into 2002, then a 5 year bull market.
Should find support at previous 4th (1400) in 2008, then rally for a year, and retest in 2012.
As for EMC and others similar.
Waiting for the next (Aug?) downtrend low to create a washout in many stocks.
Then to start buying selected techs and cyclicals.
good luck!
newbie
what\’s a chop chop day?
a "chop chop day" is when traders literally take white price candles and chop off their heads
and red blood from those chopped candles drip down below on green Volume Bars turning them red, and they do it all day
frank,
what\’s a chop chop day? and what\’s range bound? how can one tell if it is chop chop? appreciate advice! Thanks
Hi Tony,I got a chance to get the weekly chart of DOW from 1932 and I should say the current Nasdaq composite\’s pattern is shaping up exactly similar to DOW\’s wave pattern in 1937, including the sharp sell off that happened earlier this year. My observation is that the current pattern in Dow Industrials, SPX are different from Nasdaq Composite, which is the one actually mimicking Dow industrials in 1937…. do you observe the same? Would appreciate any thoughts you may have…Also, do you think EMC will hold the lows? Looks like major wave 2 isnt done yet?Joe
Most interesting… look at $VIX, on a down day, inverted hammer??!! It is testing the broken long term support line, and failed second time… so does this mean bullish for equity? The support line started Oct 2007 on 200 daily chart of $VIX and it got broken on a gap down on April 16… and today tested second time… we actually closed above it on June 12, but that was a head fake… anyway just something interesting…
Do tell?
Some late buying seen
closed
ENQ might have done 5 waves up from low but like I said its awful late
getting late I shouldn\’t even be trading Im flat ur guys 8000 is back in play
I am a scalping fool I might upgrade to a camaro !!!!
I lost all the salt in my body 2 day Frank the only cure is to drink heavily
Lee, yes, either short decides is enough and they going to cover or longs give up and sell all… but range day… stay in side… although we would have a chance of hammer day on all indicies, but if they want to do it, they better do it now…
Well I don\’t know about u guys but I killed them this week.. I bought a new fur coat and got my Pontiac Fiero waxed and ready…If were going to make a run up its now…
I bailed. The 4th wave just failed.
I think that holding 1280 would be a good sign for bulls.
my OBV on lowest degree chart shows that all longs on move up are sold out. It is bullish I think.
Yes, I\’m looking at the 2 min chart. Very small position. At best a scalp trade.
chrys… you sure? range day will fu** both the bears and bulls… yes we have a strong buying now in SPY, but 15 minutes chart, the down trend still intact… it poke above for a time, but now under, still have about 9 minutes left… let see if we can poke above the down trend line on SPY 15 minutes chart…
Ok, I\’m long SPY; I wish volume would pick up.
ya, egoldspot… yet another bull trap? Range day will fu** both bear and bulls… now the wedge morph into a down trend channel… but the channel line got steeper then the first one… I\’ll upload a picture of what I see…
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3188/2615769337_6d6fda91c7_o.jpg
Classical bear trap
I\’ve got a sliding buy stop just above the wedge. It\’s currently at 128 in SPY.
ya, and we are back into the morning wedge… oh well… that sux, didn\’t get my capitulation… but now the people who short below the wedge look like a bear trap now… but I guess have to wait until close…
I am thinking the mkts gap down fairly hard on Monday am after the avg investor has time to think about things over the weekend…when we gap down on Monday and SP hits 1260 I will go long the mkts…this is setting just like Tony predicted…we should see a 2-3 wk rally…after this brief bear mkt rally I will go 100% short once again.
NumerologistJune 27 1:36 PMDoes this mean the bear market has just began or has just ended?
YES! lol
Frank. waterfall type? Were down almost 1800 points in a month. like Tony, I don\’t see a crash as the short interest is way too high in this market. We have built in buyers the whole way down.
VIX made new top from 06/09.
on the 1 minute chart of SPY, there are just too many back test going on… this morning we had a wedge, which is by no mean any "hard and fast" fall… now it broke the wedge to the down side, the market is still very reluctant just go into a free fall… someOne is saving the market (PPT?) or there just bunch of bottom fisher want to pick a falling knife… We need to have a "waterfall" type of selling… and we are not getting it…
Yes, RSI would be low as mom and pop (cnbc) would be selling.
Yup, but I\’m still waiting for my 70 to 80 degree fall… fall like there\’s no tomorrow… fall like your mom and dad all want to get out of their retirement investment… fall like all the bulls want to jump off the empire state building….
Dow RSI (2) .58- lower than March lows. Time to risk some capital. just my .02.
"Dow is now reached 20% down Bear market target".Does this mean the bear market has just began or has just ended?
Dow is now reached 20% down Bear market target
I agree with Frank, will have enough time to cherry pick.
I\’m just scalping options, but it seems we should have a down day…with the trend and volatility, who\’d want to guess what happens Monday?
-, I would wait for capitulation to the down side before initiating any long position… today is just a chop chop day… getting both bear and bulls day… is normal after big move day anyway… is fu**ing with people emotion today… so if you are aggressive you can buy the dips and sell the rips… People want to short after they see CNBC will probably get frustrated as you can see on the 1 miute chart of SPY, the first dip lower got bought, so people who think it was a break down got fu**ed… at the same time, people who is waiting for a big bounce, and bought at inital market open also got fu**ed… so fu**ed either way! We made a good chunck of money on this down leg (THANKS TO TONY!!), so wait for capitulation move before rent the long side for short term… but before that, any bounce should be a good sell opportunity… just my 2 cent…
rich, Form to file futures trades is #6781. Itemization is not needed. Also it is good make partnership with wife to lower tax.http://www.greencompany.com/
I can\’t pull the trigger today
) lol
Canceled Buy to Open 20 +QIDGT Canceled Buy to Open 20 +QIDGT Canceled Buy to Open 10 +QIDGT Canceled Buy to Open 10 +QIDGT Canceled Buy to Open 30 +SDSGR Canceled Buy to Open 30 +SDSGR
I don\’t know who is your broker, but usually they would have a trading history avaliable for tax purpose anyhow, so just attach that with it I think should be ok…
rich, don\’t quote me on this, but I think is ok, but ask a accoutant first… As with stock, you can just use "various" on both the item and date, but just make sure you attach a list of all the stock you\’ve traded with detail date,cost basis and sale price…
rich,
do you know what else like futures have that 60/40 tax rule?
Buba, then lucky you… I would save 2/3 long pos for a capitulation move… Today we might just be range bound as with any other day after big move day…
A question>When I traded futures in the past, on my tax form I just stated various futures trase and didn\’t itemize them. IRS accepted that. Now that I\’m going to trade futures again I\’ll probably trade thousands stuff a year. Will they still accept just a summary? Any experience would be much appreciated.
Chrysler is about(within next 6 months) to file for bankruptcy,
if GM and/or Ford follow it will start US economic collapse
Lucky me, I have sold all my position at night at 1289, and loaded long 1/3 pos at 1281. I forgot one rule yesterday – "Do not fight the TRIN".
Egg….So, you know china very well. Hehehe, you are right,
it is a communist country.
But, when I am there. (And expecting to go back in late
September) I see a leadership, without the ACLU, No Green
Peace there. A leadership that is savy on energy, and Hu
goes to all world countries to get oil. Oh, and even less
than 90 miles of the US coast, I might add.
Building 100 Nuke Power plants, where McCain only states
30 as his number.
My point is. The do seem to get things done, maybe there
is a lesson to be learned.
Careful what you say. Stay with the stock market. Now,
I know you know more about this than I do……
If fed is killer, china is the satan, producing worlds 40% production and wanting to grow in years and not in decades. I blame china for all currency manuplation in yuan and consiquences of which US already warn them.
Now china is facing the Olympics music
Killer Fed – every time Fed cuts rates children in poor countries die from hunger
(All commodities are priced in USD)
Gloomberg reports this June is worst June since 1930
well 60 minutes has a hammer now.. so maybe we reverse… but I do have positive bias next week since is a short week as stated yesterday…
Frank…..Yes, I follow what your saying. And, yes I am looking
out a bit further in time.
I appreciate your comments Frank, thanks.
Bud
if no capitulation today, at best I see a range bound day today
Bud I\’m talking about shorter time frame… If we do rally up from the "open" I would short around 1300 because that\’s on 15 points up… I base my on 60 minutes candlestick… 60 minutes candlestick no bullish formation yet… if we do get some bullish formation today, then yes we will go up to 13 whatever… but I was talking that the "open" was bullish so not good for bulls… if we open very bearish then it might of been better… but either way, I want to see some capitulation such as a hammer with long tail on 60 minutes candlestick before I feel bullish…
Frank…..hey…..I have based my comment in-line
with the NY MCO reading I am getting. Which
have a Bullish, down nonconfirmation signal on the SPX.
Example. 6/11 was -252 SP 1335
6/24 was -245 SP 1317
6/26 was -229 SP 1283
so you see. this is a bullish pattern of down, nonconfirmation signals.
that\’s my data, and cue to reverse up today.
Sure, if we can get to 1330-1345, likely short canidate.
Also looking at Tony\’s 60min DJI chart. pretty clear we are
in the 5th of 3 down. If I read that correctly, I am no EW
guy.
Bud
Bud, If we rally today, I would think 1300 level would stop it… and would be a good place to do some shorting as I would expect it would test today premarket or yesterday low again…
Stu – nice work.
SP500 - True we have lower projections. 1270, 1256 and 1230-1207.
But, are we ready for a rally up? I \’d be lucky if correct.
I am expecting a rally bias through the day today, and close
near the highs.
Just a thought that, the 26th was a reversal day.
Bud
oil drops below 140
if we don\’t capitulate and call/put ratio still stay complacent, then this rally should be sold again I believe…
ya, but better data seems to close that gap so far… we are right under yesterday closing low… I was hopeing for a gap down and capitulate down and then end the day with hammer on daily chart with long tail, that would be a nice ending…
AMOS…..My comment was kind and friendly. But, since
you brought into the conversation, but diapers.
I guess, it is true. People tend to look like their pet.
Aproved by Bud…..
good thing I did not go long yesterday
jeez. dow futures -40
well if we gap down today, we might get our capitulation!
Amos,
they stockpiled all the products, commodities etc so don\’t be such a baby – you\’ll get your diapers!
I was talking about factories around Beijing, not whole China
Amos….I know a little about China. You ref. a factory worker, not working.
Not sure where you read that. I find your comment, with little merit.
Nothing personal.
I find this news release very funny….Iran trying to warn us Americans to not talk so rough. Or we will get a (Hard Punch)..I\’m so scared…now…Iran goverment is sooooooo stupid its not even funny. I\’m 100% positive iran going to get nuked soon.
=======
Special Report: Iran Nuclear Crisis
·Larijani: The West will suffer if it continues to speak with Iran in the language of force.·Larijani warned no constructive end will result, unless the West stops using language of force.·Larijani said the West should seriously heed IAEA chief ElBaradei\’s warnings.
TEHRAN, June 26 (Xinhua) — Iranian Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani warned here on Thursday that the West will suffer if it continues to speak with Iran in the language of force, saying that pressuring Iran is a mistake, Iran\’s Press TV satellite channel reported.
Speaking at a commemoration ceremony for the martyrs in a bombing, Larijani accused the western powers of practicing "cruel methods" to curb Iran\’s technological advancement by unjustly taking advantage of nuclear and human rights issues.
Iran is acting rationally in talks on its nuclear program but its enemies speak forcefully to the face of Iranian people, a trend which would be met with a "hard punch" if continued, Larijani said.
God bless Amos
Crude oil just hit 141.82 up $1.99 and rising..
China Factory worker off of work for two months….who going to produce all of those products for two months?
less supply of products vs demand…so china factory worker again will be to blame for making something like baby diapers explode upwards in price.
When Wall street hears that China factory worker is going to off of work for two months, no telling what other items will be their target.
A.J. Frost predicted when the final wave 5 of 5 comes along…certain assets, will go upwards beyond anyones wildest dreams….
Homes, Property, Crude oil, Gas ect…these are assets…and they each are having their day in the sun.
Enjoy the ride as long as it happening…..be in perfect harmony with the trend.
but remember A.J. Frost might have not thought about the china factory worker….
its been a traders market….get in quick and get out quick….slam dunk and hand the ball over to the ref..
You always get these manias when cheap money is so wide spread…every nation is on the Fiat money system…and there is plenty of new capital coming in each minute in the trading game.
pushing prices higher and higher…
Simple answer to the complex questions.
Every nation around the world, is connected together through the same networks….news reports, and traders around the world all together trade the same thing..
My girlfriend friends bought a brand new Centex home, for $160,000 track home….they placed it on the market california…and it sold in three weeks for $320,000….then in three months it sold again for $625,000….
now that same builder is still building the same exact track home for $185,000
The home is not for salem some idiotis renting it for $2,700 amonth…now thats even crazy rent price..
Fiat systems no one knows the price of anything…its just a matter of what someone will pay for it at certain time period.
To many easy dollars chasing to few of items …
God bless Amos
Hi Tony,
Way to go Sir,Called the turns quite well.Don\’t get bothered by kudos or brickbats,you are dong an awsome job,free of cost here.
Have a nice weekend.
Amit.
the supply/demand in oil isn\’t the issue……i believe that real supply and demand only affects oil prices up to the $90-$100 mark and everything on top of that is just bubble in the makingso it really doesn\’t matter that someone starts using more oil or less oil……………
Factory Worker in china concept for higher oil demand..thats just way to funny….
i can\’t sleep now from laughing so much….
God bless Amos
I\’m watching the futures AGAIN moving higher for Crude, gas ect….I guess they can\’t figure out China factory worker is the major user of Crude….The logic of some people just is beyond funny. Factory worker in China is off of work for two months and thats less demand…..millions of people are going to china via planes, boats ect and that factory worker riding his bike to work is going to tilt the demand side lower…please my side is aching no more jokes…
God bless Amos
amos,you better not be saying how you went short on oil at the "perfect moment" and made "a nice profit" after this bubble breaks…..thats fine… have your opinion of prices going hire but i dont want to see ANY comments about how u changed ur mind at the right moment later on.
So we are to believe because a factory worker in China is off of work he or she will spend less on gas?
These factory workers won\’t take long trips to see cousins or friends and take a needed vacation?
OK I will play stupid..and bite into your wisdom ….
Crude Oil is in Wave 3 o 5 thurst upwards…to $150 then $160 then $210…ect…..
The middle east Oil nations are under Drug lords control, Americans and the western world is addicted to OIl…the drug lords understand that truth, and they reaping insane profits from the increasing demand side of the equation.
Gas to $7.00 per gallon…Now in America they have plans to lower the price at the pump, selling it by the Liter. So there is some lower pump prices coming soon.
$6.00 per liter….Yes….Americans will jump for joy!!!
God bless Amos
all factories around Beijing will be closed for 2 month so the air will be clean for Olympics
So expect demand for commodities to drop short term
50% of all cars(based on plate number) will not be allowed on Beijing highways
Basically a big party
Wonder what is going to happen to all the late comers?
Usually bagged and tagged… we are close to a temperary bottom…
Front page headlines on http://www.cnbc.com"Shorting Stocks Could Be Way to Play This Market"Wonder what is going to happen to all the late comers?
Dude from Gloomberg thinks we still can go lower tomorrow
http://yorba.tv/index.php?x=archive&y=2008&m=06&id=31&seg=2&tv=start
Crude and stock market are the play. Fed won\’t increase the interest rate as it\’s against uncle sam\’s strong dollar. Market found a way to panic fed is to play oil speculation. Fed trying ways to end this speculation w/o interest rate. Low dollar means strong tech abroad. So QQQQ is doing well then rest.
Why low dollar policy, record deficit and china gaining power. Chinese had yuan undervalued for years that worked for them, so it should work for US. Also to beat up the trade deficit with chinese as we owe less to them. Already they have tanked 50% plus dollar depreciation and yuan appreciation, well chinese are most gulliable people to do business. Above all they invest in your company which is already going towards zero.
It\’s play against china rise. Recession in US means Olympics get\’s reverse impact and chinese gets more in trouble. It\’s like economic warfare after cold war.
Very nice day, Crude exploded upwards and its going much higher…the stock markets will rebound when crude tops out..
Plus, U.S.A. is going to send Iran and the Islam world a special present….very soon…..
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Part of recent story why U.S.A. is going to nuke Iran
Bush\’s defeats in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israel\’s defeat by Hezbollah in Lebanon have shown that the military firepower of the U.S. and Israeli armies, though effective against massed Arab armies, cannot defeat guerillas and insurgencies. The U.S. has battled in Iraq longer than it fought against Nazi Germany, and the situation in Iraq is out of control. The Taliban have regained half of Afghanistan. The king of Saudi Arabia has told Bush that the ground is shaking under his feet as unrest over the American/Israeli violence against Muslims builds to dangerous levels. Our Egyptian puppet sits atop 100 million Muslims who do not think that Egypt should be a lackey of U.S. hegemony. The king of Jordan understands that Israeli policy is to drive every Palestinian into Jordan.
Bush is incapable of recognizing his mistake. He can only escalate. Plans have long been made to attack Iran. The problem is that Iran can respond in effective ways to a conventional attack. Moreover, an American attack on another Muslim country could result in turmoil and rebellion throughout the Middle East. This is why the neocons have changed U.S. war doctrine to permit a nuclear strike on Iran.
Neocons believe that a nuclear attack on Iran would have intimidating force throughout the Middle East and beyond. Iran would not dare retaliate, neocons believe, against U.S. ships, U.S. troops in Iraq, or use their missiles against oil facilities in the Middle East.
Neocons have also concluded that a U.S. nuclear strike on Iran would show the entire Muslim world that it is useless to resist America\’s will. Neocons say that even the most fanatical terrorists would realize the hopelessness of resisting U.S. hegemony. The vast multitude of Muslims would realize that they have no recourse but to accept their fate. God bless Amos
Hi Frank,
I relooked most of the charts, and it seems short is the name. I agree no where near bottom. Bulls must hide as no where to run.
One thing of interest is that XLF did not get too low below last low and AAPL,GOOG are still pretty high up there… although we could have a crash senario… then all bets off. That\’s why I hate to hold long overnight when we have such fragile market… I\’m totally comforatble holding short overnight but not long position…
I would think we will have temp bottom in near term, especially with month end, some sought of short squeeze has to happen. C manged to hold at 17.67 with infact dow moved to -350 and it\’s remained almost same since -100. So I think it has more upside in near term then downside. It might go to low teens but it has to be with time. If tomorrow it goes down again -4% it\’s roaring buy and expect reversal squeeze.
I am truly sorry for anybody caught on the wrong side of this downdraft because I\’ve been there many times, but you should get some or most of your money back within the next few days, or worst case weeks. I got lucky b/c the market blew right through the 1314ish area where I was contemplating reversing my position so I let my shorts run. I reversed using a 1/2 position at 1287 like several others here but I am not over-confident since the "crash" scenario, however unlikely, is a lot more possible than normal right now.
I charted my preferred Scenario 3 from earlier today – an ED down from SPX 1367 – and corrected my written mistake which had 1312 as "a" instead of 1304.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25052392@N05/2614366544/sizes/o/
Why do I think SPX will bounce tomorrow (or at least go sideways before popping Monday)?
On the chart, you\’ll notice there are positive divergences in MACD, RSI and even Stoch on the 15min chart with Stoch coiling also. The bottom downtrend line from 1367 crosses about 1280 first thing in the morning (see chart), ISE/CPC both went slightly bullish and NYMO had a daily positive divergence after recording a level a couple days ago associated with bottoms. If my Scenario 3 is accurate, wave "d" of the ED needs to cross 1304 which also happens to be near the 38% retrace of the post-Fed drop. I don\’t think expanding EDs are allowed and a parallel channel crosses 1320 by end of Friday and 1304 by end of Tuesday, so any bounce fitting this ED cannot exceed 3 days and is likely to stop at 1304-1320 in an abc fashion. Also, keep in mind that the October drop (1576–>1406) was 170 pts. So far, 1440–>1283=157 points. An "e" wave to 1270 would make the down leg from 1440 match the October down leg more closely in total time and price even though subwaves differed. Finally, looking at other markets, I can argue that a leading diagonal is virtually completed from the May high in both Nasdaq and Transports, and BKX held its low from 2 days ago although I would not doubt a slightly lower low with positive divergence next week. If things play out as argued here, SPX would likely go up 1-2 days into quarter end, then down 1-2 days completing just before July 4th and possibly allowing for a pre and/or post holiday bounce. Remember, wedge endings can retrace violently so have a quick trigger on stops.
What invalidates the ED or makes it fishy?
If SPX drops very far tomorrow, the wedge will get steeper and it will take a furious 1-day rally above 1304 to maintain the ED. A drop below 1256 tomorrow would eliminate an ED scenario and a drop below 1270 would make it very unlikely. One concern I have with Scenario 3 is that it is difficult to count an abc down from 1336, although 1336–>1320=16 and 1324–>1283=41 and 41/16=2.6 so 1280-1283 is a possible Fib ratio abc. I have greater concerns about the other scenarios. In fact, my Scenario 2 irregular flat is practically eliminated in my book.
Hypothetically, if 1270 ends up being the bottom, here are some potential targets. Obviously the numbers could be a little higher or lower depending on the upcoming bottom.
1. 38% retrace of 1440–>1270 = 1335
2. 50% retrace of 1440–>1270 = 1355
3. 62% retrace of 1440–>1270 = 1375
4. The October Wave 1 was 170 pts followed by a 118 pt bounce. The May/June down leg would be 170 pts at 1270. 118+1270=1388
5. EW retraces often return to the previous 4th wave start, especially if the 5th wave was long like this one. Wave 4 down from 1440 likely started at 1367.
This means the next large bounce would reach the 1330s-1380s with 1370ish probably being the most key area. 1331, 1360-1364 and 1387-1388 are possible pivot points in that range IMHO. The time frame for the last two wave 2s was 8-10 trading days, so I\’d expect the same. McLaren says 7-11 days…same difference. Another cycle guy is saying 6/27 low, 7/13 high…same difference. All fits the puzzle…until it doesn\’t. Good luck.
Yes, (1576-((1576-1270)=306*1.61)-492)=1082ish
I think Tony\’s target for final low is around 1050, no?
So now we are near 1180 mark, and 100 to go does anyone think it\’s gonna be time wise bottom? or it\’s like panic for biggie and only place to find money is in shorts i.e. 401k etc to survive. If that\’s case we have to count tsunami C instead of extended C.
Any ideas?